VOA Podcast Welcomes Parenting Shrink Wrapped Podcast

In this episode of Voices of Annapolis, we sit down with the team behind Parenting Shrink Wrapped for a thoughtful and refreshing conversation about how Melissa Wllner, MD and Samantha Staub came together to give back to the parenting community. 

From Teen Savvy Coaching for Teens and Tweens with Samantha Staub to Annapolis Psychiatry with Melissa Wellner, we get much needed reminder and insights on the mental health crisis that is overcoming a ton of our young people. These ladies are here and prepared to help! 

Melissa Wellner 

580 Bellerive Road, Suite 5 B

Annalolis, MD 21409

410 575 4895 or 410 847 2470 

drwellner@annapolispsychiatry.com 

Teen Savvy Coaching with Samantha Staub

www.teensavvycoaching.com

For the PODCAST: PARENTING SHRINK WRAPPED find them on YouTube and all other Podcast Platforms!

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Five on left, a main street next with a big one and a city shine right. These are the voices, these are their stories. Voices of Annapolis. Dive in. Hey guys, welcome back to Voices of Annapolis. This is Kelly Bell with the Bell House Catering, and we have Gretchen Moran with the Culinary Square.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Hi, Gretchen. Hey Cal. I had a really great time. Thank you so much for the team building activity at Annapolis Bowl this week. It was so much fun. You're welcome. I did have a lot of fun. Our team lost miserably. You know what surprised me, and it probably shouldn't surprise me, it's gonna make me sound like a snob, but I was really surprised at how good the wings were. The wings were pretty darn awesome. Usually, if I'm gonna eat a wing, I have to have blue cheese, and I did not even need blue cheese for those. Well, it's the Thai, the Thai chili. Oh, you went buffalo? I tried all of them. I stuck my fingers in all of them and did not sanitize in between.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

Oh, oh no, no, we were all disgusting. I'm surprised we were all gonna come down with an illness.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

We were bowling and putting our hands in those balls, and then we'd go right back to our pizza. It's not the MO of our kitchen. Not at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

It felt a little weird.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

It felt a little weird. But the bowling was great. Yeah, yeah. Um, we had some wonderful, I mean, like I said, the way you were celebrating, I thought you all were bowling three hundreds. We had team averages were like 90.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

Yeah, they were.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Yeah. I think ours was 80 and we only played once. Like my team only played once. So did you see that two people on my team showed up with their own bowling shoes and their little bowling grass? We had four.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Brenda also is bowling uh Chloe also came in full on bowling.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Did you see Chloe bowl? Yeah, it was like she was swing dancing.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Oh, it was beautiful. Oh, she had that nice curve, like you're like, it's going in the gutter, and it's like, nope, just right there. Yeah, it was beautiful. She was a ringer, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

She's how old is she? She's like 20. 2020. She looks like she's 12. She does, but she's 23.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

And she's got the she's 23 and and is like a 50-year-old, yeah. All at the same time. And looks like a 12-year-old. That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

She's the first to be reckoned with. Anyway, it was a great time. And thank you so much. I love that. That's another part of I I love making you blush, but it's another part of your amazing leadership that you make sure that we find time for each other outside of the kitchen.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

Well, it's the only way we can get along and get together and I to me work cohesively and not get offended when someone's like, you know, screaming in the in the weeds is to understand who we are as people. So for sure. And I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

And what we know now is the majority of us are terrible bowlers. Exactly. But we still had a great time with it. Exactly. Today, though, we've got an amazing continuation of there's this um thing the universe is doing to bring us back to these people who understand, love on, uh, explain, and have great tools for appearance of teens out there, right? Yeah. So today we're gonna introduce uh Sam Straub and Melissa Wellner, Dr. Melissa Wellner. Welcome, ladies. Yeah. Of um how of all the things. So Annapolis, psychic, psychic psychiatry of teen savvy coaching. Teen savvy coaching of the parenting shrink wrapped podcast. So we are we want to lead with that. Two podcasters interviewing two podcasters.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

I know it's gonna be a competition for mics basically.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Which is kind of like I listened listened to a couple of our episodes lately. I'm like, would she stop talking over me? So it's normal. Sam usually does the majority of the talking thing.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Well, the talking over is usually me.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Definitely me. Well, we can do that today. Full permission. Absolutely. We are uh we are also not like PG rated, so there's often uh two sailors here that don't know how to not swear. Feel free to join or not. Aye, Captain. Okay, you're permissioned. Um, but I'd I'd like you to to there's so much I would set up because I'm in awe of, first of all, if anyone you we're not on YouTube, so nobody knows how young and beautiful you both are. But you the accomplishments you have are lined up and numerous. So I want you each to talk a little bit about first who you are individually, you know, take turns, and then tell me how the the podcast came together and how this relationship came together.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Yeah. All right. Um Melissa, you go first. You you go back.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Okay, fine. Um so I completed um residency and fellowship at the University of Maryland and then Johns Hopkins for child psychiatry. Um after that I went to work at the Panoral Medical Center, which is now Luminous. Um during my time there, I was the only child adolescent psychiatrist on staff for the entire hospital. Wow. Um, I started their outpatient mental health services for adolescents and also helped open the doors to the adolescent psychiatric partial hospitalization program, which is a day program for teens who needed a higher level of care besides just being outpatient, but didn't need to be on an inpatient unit either. Um following my time there, I went and joined Wakeweight Wellness Center, um, where I also became a co-owner and lead psychiatrist. Um and then back towards the end of 2023, I had kind of made some departure plans from there and branched out onto my own and opened Annapolis Psychiatry. Um and since opening, I've also hired a nurse practitioner who works with me, and I have another child psychiatrist coming on board this upcoming summer. Um and I've had the privilege of knowing Sam for probably about 10 years now.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

I think we we met while you were transitioning away from the adolescent program to private practice, and she was making the rounds getting to know people who could be referral sources essentially. Yeah. Yeah. And at the time I was working at Severn School. I was the chair of upper school counseling there for 11 years, and so she made an appointment with me and a colleague, and we hit it off. And so it ended up that you know, we shared students slash clients for a while. And at the time I was not working as a private clinical counselor. Um I was just doing the school counseling thing. And my background is in education 26 years, 27. Um first as a middle school counselor, a middle school teacher, middle school English teacher, and then a dean of students for middle school. So I did discipline for middle schoolers. That was a funny couple years. We're seeing far.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

You hide them off.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

I actually did not want to leave that job. We left because of like a geographic change for my husband's work. Um I I intended to be the head of middle school there, but that that didn't work. That didn't work out. Anyway, um then I was a school counselor for 18 years, and the last 11 of them were at Severn School. So it was then that I met Melissa, and sh then we became colleagues because um I got my license, my clinical counseling license while I was at Severn. So I went from being a school counselor to also being able to do mental health um counseling, and I went to work part-time at Waypoint Wellness Center. So I was moonlighting there, and Melissa was working down the hall. So we went from like knowing each other professionally to being colleagues and somewhere in there became friends. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

And then um following that, um, Sam and I have given joint presentations in the area for churches, schools, public audiences. Um, and during one of those planning sessions at her house, I'm like standing in her kitchen and I'm like, my husband thinks we should have a YouTube channel. And it was an out-of-the-blue suggestion. It was like random. We were all wrapped up. I was like getting ready to leave, and like I like blurted this out in Sam's kitchen.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

But I'm an extrovert, and I was like, funny you should say that. I have been wanting my own platform. I mean, I was like, it wasn't I didn't think YouTube channel, I said I would I've been wanting a podcast. Just let's do it, let's make it happen.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

And we set some time aside, we met, and parenting shrink wrapped was born from there. And since then we've been dropping episodes weekly. It's a year and a half in.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

A year and a half, yeah. It was about two years ago, Melissa had this brilliant idea. And um, it took us about six months to make it happen, and then yeah, and we've been pretty regular with with podcast episodes. We've been at very regular, exclusively regular, every Monday.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Exclusively regular. Every Monday there is a new episode that drops, and Sam and I figured it out on our own. We had to learn how to do it. And amazing. And where can we find this podcast?

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Parenting Shrink Rept is on all major platforms and YouTube. So we've got um, you know, we're video and audio.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

And since we're on the subject, why don't you guys talk about what parenting shrink rept is to you?

SPEAKER_01 9:22

So for me, it started definitely as like a fashion project to kind of give back to the community. Um in my private practice, I do not participate with insurance, so I'm not accessible to everyone, and I I know that. Um but there's a lot of people out there that need help, and they don't necessarily need to always see somebody individually. They just need to be empowered with knowledge and skills and tools and know that as a parent, like what do I do when I mess up? And you're not gonna do it perfectly. Sam and I definitely don't, and we joke about our own mishaps on the show sometimes. And um it's become this amazing adventure with a great friend and colleague, and we laugh and have fun doing it along the way.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

So that's the question. As soon as I saw the dynamic, just you two sitting here talking about your origin story with the podcast. I could immediately make the assumption that you are having fun with it.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

It is a ball. We we really I look forward to podcast-related planning, recording days. Like when we record, we box out four hours and we do four episodes back to back, and we have little time in between. And so we're on together for like four to five hours once a month, and then there's always planning stuff behind the scenes. Yeah. And it's a it's a total pleasure. It's a pleasure to work with Melissa. We see eye to eye, uh, you know, and it's each other's backs too.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Like there have been times where I'm MIA or Sam's MIA, and there's it just works. We work as a team and we pick up Slack when the other person can't. We have the same goals in mind with it, um, and we both bring like a fresh energy and perspective to it.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

So, Cal, I'm just gonna say I think they are are uh inspiring us to level up. Like plant planning would be good. But I have to, I I just I like off the cuff. But do you hear in it like how much fun I looked at Kelly when she said we're gonna do a podcast? I was like, You're crazy. I don't even like I have no small talk. I I I don't have a sense of humor. Like if you want to solve world peace, I don't know who'd want to listen to it. That's the podcast I would have. But we have now six months in so much fun. Yeah. Um, and we also never miss if we have someone on the schedule, we never miss. Like we will drive drive edge water and turn around like to. Because we will not miss. And and we every time we do an episode, we're always amazed at like the uptake. The last one was a like blown blew us out of the water. Yeah. So people want to hear these canic conversations, and it's and it's just lucky for us that we have such a good time doing it. So it's so nice to meet two ladies of the same ilk that are like, yeah, this is just fun.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

It's just fun.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

It doesn't feel like it doesn't feel like working. That doesn't not at all. All four agreed. Doesn't feel like work at all. So can we go back to your origin stories just for a minute? I want I want to Sam first ask you like 25 years plus in working with young people, you have how many of your own? Two.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

My kids are 21, about to be 22, so an almost college graduate. Maybe by the time this drops, you will be a college graduate, and a college sophomore, a 19-year-old.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

So, where across teaching, therapy, coaching, um, what moment was it that showed you that this was your work? Like where what was there that epiphany, or have you just were you born one day and said, I know I'm gonna do this work with these kids? Because you know, let's just say that the thing out loud, wild lack of support for this age group in general. Now it's just so much more necessary after two years of of isolation. The the fallout is still happening, like we need seven more SAMs. Like, how did you know that this was your work?

SPEAKER_02 13:08

I'd say there's sort of two components, and it goes way back. One is I've always loved leading kids. Like, I mean, at all of my jobs when I was younger, I was a babysitter, I worked at camp counselor, you know, like I always sought jobs where I was teaching, essentially. Of course, I thought I wanted to be an architect. Um there's a crazy. I didn't know that. Yeah, I did. And then I had this teacher who she was a during my sophomore year of high school, who I absolutely despised. She was my English teacher. She made she embarrassed, I thought that she put people on the spot, and um, and she put me on the spot one time. I I mumbled a poem I had written, which I did not want to write, nor, and I certainly didn't want to read it out loud in front of the class. And yet I had to do both of those things. And in the middle of reading it out aloud, she's she stopped me, accused me of mumbling, told a story about some usher she had met in New York City who enunciated the the directions to the bathroom, which were through the orange doors and down the stairs.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

You did not forget this moment.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

No, because she made me stop and say that until it was clear enough for her satisfaction. And only then, when I was like near tears and totally embarrassed, could I go back to a poem I was not keen on writing or reading? I'm so sorry you went through that. No, I exactly. Aren't you like still in a little anxious too? Because I taught the first 10 years.

SPEAKER_03 14:33

No, because exactly this is what she remembers and what it changed for her.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

But here's the thing: this teacher, so that was like somewhere in the first marking period. We had to write a letter to our teacher at the end of the marking period and say how we thought it had gone and what we thought our grade should be. And I was like, I thought it went very poorly. I think you embarrass people, and I don't like coming to your class, and I've done all the homework and done very well, and I think my grade should be an A minus. And she called me, she called me at home. This is public school in the gosh, this was the like 1990, maybe 89, 90, 1990. And uh, she called me at home to talk about that, and nobody ever had to go through the orange doors and down the stairs again. Like she listened to my feedback and I got the A-like and and she became my favorite teacher. So much so that I didn't. Well, that is not the ending I was. She became my favorite teacher. I chose, I didn't take physics my senior year, so I could take uh a second English class with this teacher. She became a mentor, I went on to study education in college, I student taught. The summer before I student taught, I went back to meet with Mrs. Mayer, that's her name, and and I was like, I'm gonna be teaching English, give me all the deets, you know, and she gave me resources. So she was influential, that's part of it. I liked teaching, that's another part. And I did not grow up in a household where there was smooth communication around emotions, and I felt really uncomfortable in my own skin. You wouldn't have known that to meet me, but if you watched me not talk about my emotions and real stuff with my parents, it would have been very difficult.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

Most households don't. Like if especially, I think, even more so after Coke, I didn't get ri my parents were not like, so how are you feeling today? No. I mean, I've changed it up. I don't really know, I don't do that with my own children. I'm it's more along the lines, okay, what you're either hungry, you're tired, what's happening right now? Like you have like I need you to tell me what's happening. I'm not, I'm not a come give me a hug kind of person. You'll you know, I'm more like you fell, rub it off, you'll be fine. Um, but you do have to be like, there's something happening. You're acting like a pain in the butt. So let's talk about this. Tell me what's going on. Even this morning. And Charlie and Fletcher, by the way, Kelly's children respond well to that. That usually works with Charlie and Fred's. Just like this morning, there was a car sitting outside my house, but we have and a guy in it, you know, but it's a sports car. We have construction going on. So I was, and Charlie was like last to leave. And I was like, look, I need you to, I don't know who's outside because they're in a sports car, not a construction car. I'm like, can you just call me when you're walking out the, you know, so I know that you're going to the bus stop and not gonna end up in a you know a ditch somewhere. A ditch somewhere. She's like, yeah, fine, and hung up the phone. I'm like, God, bitch. And after like a couple minutes and she didn't call, I called her back. She's like, I did call you. You just didn't answer. And I'm like, wow, okay. Like, did you eat breakfast? Like, so, and then of course, like, I I emailed her, I texted her back because, you know, I was like, because she was on the school bar in school, and I was like, look, I don't appreciate how you talk to me. I need you, you know, you can you don't have to go that route, you know, whatever, yada, yada. And she's like, I'm sorry, you're right. She's like, I was just annoyed you didn't pick up the phone because apparently she called me. But the phone, you know how like phones, and I was like, look, you didn't call. Here's a screenshot sending it out. I was like, so next time, that's right, next time, let's have a conversation before you get to it.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

No, I think um I I think I know in my household that even that isn't it wasn't a conversation, like that was not happening. And any any kind of like um addressing how I showed up or whether I showed up at all. Oh, it's like at home, like when you were a kid?

SPEAKER_03 18:19

No, I didn't have no, I didn't have that. There was there was no discussion about how I felt. So I have to like, and again, I'm not very I don't take the curves, you know. Well I kind of straightforward.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

It I still think that it is the children and and we who are we to even even say this in front of the professionals, but the children and the parents to figure out the dynamics of that communication, but that communication is still like I'm inviting you in to tell me what's happening so I can help.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Well, I think I grew up in a household where I was invited in, but my and my parent, my mother thought that she was doing this in a way that was going to be inviting, but she herself, like you never knew which mom you were gonna get. Like sometimes you got like the goopy, pity-filled, like too emotional, and you were like, that's gross. Like, like really the guy could just like wipe it off of me. That's truly how I felt about it. And sometimes she was standoffish and like I failed tests I didn't realize I was taking. And I didn't know which mom I was gonna get. And so neither one felt awesome to me. So it was either like too emotionally goopy or not emotionally enough. And so I just kind of why do therapists become therapists? Because we're working out around shit. So there's my chip, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Well, it's not just therapists. I'll tell you that I cr I'm a computer scientist. I I've been in software most of my life. I cried through my first computer class, and I now teach so I teach lots of technical things to people because I'm like, nobody should cry through a computer class. So I think that there's there's something about those scars that brings us to the city.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Yeah, like what what learning what learning changed my life? Yeah, and I want to bring that to other people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Yeah, perfect. And and Melissa, your origin story is fascinating to me because I find like I find psychiatry and and psychology and and therapy, like I think when you come as a patient or the parent of a child that needs it, it's all just one big blob to you. But since I've been through some of this with my own child, I find the psychiatry to be the part that I most am comfortable with because you're not there to give me a DSM diagnosis. You're there to give me the things you see in the things we can measure, which as an engineer you would imagine, I'm much more comfortable with. But I am really curious about your experience in opening the day hospital. Talk to us about how that came about at that time and how did you know that work needed to be done?

SPEAKER_01 20:43

So when I first took the job at Anna Rundle, I knew coming out of training and coming to work in the area where I was also living that there was a void and complete lack of mental health services available to kids and adolescents in this area. And this was how long ago? Um That was from I was at the hospital from 2015 to 2017. I believe that lack of children. There's a lack of child psychiatrists throughout the entire United States. Um super lots. Statistically, the country as a whole is short thousands of child psychiatrists.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

So can I I hate to keep interrupting you, but my brain just is going off on like, so you saw it at a time when maybe others didn't everybody knows now because these kids have gone through the city.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

COVID highlighted a lot. It also reduced the stigma a lot.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

So prior to COVID That was gonna be my question. Like, why was it that this field was so devoid of the resources it needed? Did we not think kids needed this?

SPEAKER_01 21:49

It was kind of brushed under the rug. If you think back to when you were a kid, when I was a kid in school, somebody didn't get like help unless things were done. Yeah, like it had to be an impressive behavior problem. You had to be completely intellectually disabled. And most kids don't fall on those extremes. No. It doesn't mean they don't need help, though, and they don't need guidance. And the generation of us now raising kids have no model for this because guess what? Our parents don't didn't have any model. So there was no training that came down the line. And so there's various levels of psychiatric care, and they exist in major academic institutions. They very much don't exist in this area. They've gotten a little bit better since then, but um they're still few and far between.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

You've got them a shady out and you're hacking down the path. Yeah. So and it was just one kid at a time.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

And that's very brave work. It's it's very rewarding though. Um I get to watch these kids get better and grow up. The nice thing about being both adult and child is I never have to kick anyone out of my care like a pediatrician does. So I have been treating some people. I've watched them grow up. They've graduated from college, um, they're in their first jobs. It is the most rewarding thing to see that kind of impact.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

There's not a lot of this kind of work that gets to see that sort of longevity either. Like the longitudinal studies are for a five-year period from 10 to 15 years.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

I have patients that I have been treating for over 10 years. That's rare. Yeah, that's great. So I have patients that I treated as a fellow at Johns Hopkins that I still see to this day.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

That's incredible. Amazing. So you both come at, you know, we're we again, we we were fascinated with you and brought you here because we're like, well, we've talked a lot about how do we as parents today. I mean, I don't know there was ever, I don't think there's ever an easy time to be a parent. But a parent today has definitely got some unique challenges. And we talked to other parents who bind their children to be less than mainstream. We've talked to other parents who are like, no, just a parenting teens today is just unscripted. So you both come at it from very different perspectives. So, like, how does Melissa's work complement your work, Sam, or or vice versa?

SPEAKER_02 24:27

Oh, well, I will say, um, you know, not every child in therapy needs medication, let's just say, right? They don't all need me. Right. Um, but when I'm working with a child who is on medication, it is so wonderful to be able to collaborate with a provider who, first of all, sees kids, sees the whole package, like sees kids for for who they are, right? And um and who's easy to reach. That's just another thing. There's like these barriers to, like, when I'm working with a provider who works in a large, like sort of conglomerate of a medication, of a medical practice, they are behind administrative walls, and it's impossible for me to call them. And I'll call the administration and I'll say, hi, I'm Sam Straub. I work for Waypoint Wellness Center. Here's a number to reach me back, and it's like my direct, it's like a number that rings to my cell phone. Do not give them the practice number because I'm behind a administrative, like, call me on this number, and then I will get a call two days two or three days later, and it will be a message from the administration at Waypoint saying, so-and-so called back. I'm like, I gave them my and it's this, and it'll it can take two weeks to have a conversation about like something I'm seeing in therapy that's that where there's like an abnormality, or I think there's like the the prescriber needs to know this because I'm not I know I work with enough people to know to be able to discern sometimes when something's a medication issue and when I can handle it in terms of it.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

Well, have you guys noticed because like my mom has been in the medical field working, she's like an office manager who's been working in doctor's office for like 35 years, and she literally can tell you she worked with an endocrinologist, she's basically could have been the nurse or a doctor in the in the practice. But I know like her job increasingly got harder and harder and harder. And even now, her trying to make phone calls, she was like, it's like three, four times. Like so, are you noticing? Do you notice the same in the psychiatry? Probably even, I don't know, even worse, maybe. The so like what would you suggest that we that people do who are listening can fix the problem so that you're not waiting two weeks for a phone call back, or you're like, hey, how about use the phone number I called you on?

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Either that or use email because sometimes we're all booked at the same time, back to back with patients. My email is on my website, all my patients have it. Anybody who knows me professionally has it, drop me a line and I will schedule a time where you and I can connect for in the best interest of that kid. And people using email. I have no idea. Like at least I understand. People have my cell phone number, like colleagues have my personal cell phone number. Shoot me a text message. Yeah, I'll respond.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

Before Sam and I work together, she she would reach out, we would have we would have calls like in the car going home. But I but some of the reason is HIPAA, and some of the reason is record keeping because if you've got a huge caseload and you are corresponding, this is from the clinical, from the clinician point of view, clinician's point of view, and you're corresponding on email or via text. First of all, you can't be doing you can't be training patient patient.

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Obviously, but if you're like, hey, I need to talk to you about a patient, can we set up the page?

SPEAKER_01 27:47

And that's that's all it takes. Shoot me an email and say I need to talk about a mutual patient.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

But some practices don't allow kind of extracurricular conversations outside of their portal. And because the portal, you know, tracks all the all the communications and there's less there's less administrative stuff.

SPEAKER_03 28:05

Then put something in the portal that you can contact them to be like, hey, you know what I mean? Like there's there's gotta be something. Something.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

And so you know fix it medical. People do the best they can, but what I find is the antidote is either clinicians like Melissa who make themselves available, or clinicians who have really terrific administrative staff.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

So look for those practices.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

I've corresponded with several clinicians in this area whose admin staff is just amazing. Like I know their first name and I'll say hi so-and-so. I'm calling about this patient. You know, can I I know you'll I know I can't reach the doctor right now, but can I leave this message? And the administrative staff will be like, yep, I'll get it to her. This is time sensitive. Like that, that's a huge helps remove some barriers.

SPEAKER_03 28:47

So so if you're looking for a place that's what you want to find out, ask about it's the first line of defense.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

I mean, when you call a practice, more often than not, you are speaking to some sort of front desk staff. If you don't get a good vibe from that point moving forward, it's gonna be a difficult practice to work with.

SPEAKER_03 29:06

Yeah, I get that. So note make notes, parents, make notes. So because we're talking to the parents right now, and one of the things that you guys do is this parent coaching therapy. Um talk to us about that. Is that like tutoring? What exactly is that?

SPEAKER_02 29:20

So I I have I wear two hats. I have two jobs that I do during the week. When I I'm an employee at Waypoint Wellness Center, where I am a therapist, and people kind of understand what that what that is. Um and I treat teens on up. So, and but the but two groups of people tend to find me teens and young adults, and parents of people that age. So I have like a barbelled caseload. Um, and then the other half of the week, I run a parent coaching business called teen savvy coaching, and that is for parents of teens and tweens, and and actually young adults too. Um, and that is not therapy, that is helping you develop, like helping parents adopt the skills and tools life skills they need to reach their teens. Like teens, I'm sure you, you know, you've you both have raised teenagers, right? Stuff changes when they hit adolescence, and the way you communicate with your eight-year-old does not work with a 14-year-old because they they become more resistant. And it's not because you're doing something wrong, that's like nature of the beast. But that doesn't mean the the resistance doesn't have to mean a breakdown in the relationship. Right. And unless you know how to roll with that resistance as a parent, and unless you know how to look for the like the stuff beneath the the iceberg, you know, there can be disconnection. In other words, what I hope to prov to provide families is a different pathway than what ended up happening in my own family, which was not unhealthy. Like I never went without, you know what I mean? Like I I was well loved, I loved my parents, but I know that I could have been so much more comfortable in my own skin had my parents had slightly different teen appropriate tools.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Well, and I think what I love about what you do, Sam, is as parents, and we're gonna talk a little bit about this, is we don't want to overarch and hover over that kid, and everything is like now pathologized. Yes. But at the same time, we don't want to miss the markers that are showing up that means, hey, this is a yellow flag, this is something we really maybe need to get help with. And what parent knows how to navigate that without a guide? Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

And that's one of the things that I help parents with because I'm because I've got 26 years in education, I've seen a lot of things, and I'm a I'm a trained clinician. So I'm not, I don't have a clinician hat on while I'm doing parent coaching, but I'm I can be like, uh, you are treading into maybe you need to seek a therapist for your child territory versus this is so normal, and I can give you a roadmap out of here.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

So for Dr. Melissa, like, is there ever a time when you get a parent who's brought their kids you and you're like, you may be overarching here, but I've got this friend, Sam, who maybe can help you because this is really more you, mom, than it is your child. So that's I could see that conversation.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

Very, very frequently, and that conversation definitely occurs, and Sam definitely gets a referral also to teen savvy coaching, not just to her as an individual therapist, a lot of times. Um so a lot of times, even if the kid is the identified concern, um, these are tricky times to navigate, and everybody needs a little help. I I always tell a story like I had a patient years ago sitting in my office, and the mom said to me, You must be the perfect parent, and I literally burst out into laughter. And I said, I don't know what makes you think that. I said, having a degree doesn't make you a perfect parent. No, I said, We're all figuring it out as we go, um, and we all can lean on each other for support. And um, I mean, I just have the privilege that I get Sam at my disposal all the time.

SPEAKER_03 32:55

So, yeah, because like I I mean I know like with my kids, I have my son, my daughter tells me my son is my favorite, and it's like, no, I just have he's just different. Like, I cannot talk to you the same the way that I talk to him. It's not the same. And it's not that he's my favorite, I love you too. Right now you're getting on my nerves, so I like him better. But but I love you both the same. It's just the attack has to be different. You have I cannot approach my son the way that I approach my daughter. My daughter is like, she is I if she doesn't run, uh if she's not a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, uh I I don't know what I don't know what I'll do.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

And Sam and I have talked about this on the podcast. She's definitely had times where her son and daughter needed different things. I have three kids. They all need different things. And they're differ at different ages and different developmental points. So what my six-year-old needs is very different than what my 12-year-old needs right now. Yeah.

unknown 33:51

Wait.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

So what you're saying is that our children are given to us to humble us because we we're Oh, amen.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

How many times my son was put on this planet to knock the perfectionist out of me and to like if because I was cocky. I was like, I know how to do this teenage thing. I'm gonna have like adolescence and just raising kids is gonna be a cakewalk. And I think if I had had only my daughter types, I would have thought that. But that's not who I got first. I got my son, totally robbed me of any cockiness. Like, if he it just, I I adore that young man, and he was he shook up my world.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

So, Sam, I gotta tell you a story. We uh again, engineers, right? A whole room full of them. And one of our closest friends had um his first daughter, and Chameron was absolutely perfect in every way. She was a singer, a a musician. Um, she went on to pre-med. Um to this day is everything that Mark loved to brag about. And then he had Dustin, and we all celebrated every challenge Dustin put in front of him because Mark was so cocky about being the proofing bear. We were like, get him, Dustin.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

And I'm glad I got my son first. You know, I'm like, right? Like, I first of all I always joke, like, if I'd had him second, I would have thought something was really wrong with him. But but he just If I had Charlie first, I wouldn't have had a second. We took I would not have had a second. Because we were like, well, he can't be an only child. Like that's not good for anybody. So but my daughter's the gift, she's the second one. The gift I didn't know I wanted because I also thought I wanted all boys. And I was wrong about that too.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

So I want to say that I could answer this question, but I'm super curious, Dr. Melissa, what are parents coming to you for most right now in the teen space? That's legit, that anxiety on your doorstep. Anxiety's real. Anxiety is not overblown. We're not overblown.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

It's not overblown. Um it's it's definitely very much real. And our kids are really stressed out.

unknown 35:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Are we are we able to like are we able to? I have always thought the communication channels, like shutting some off and and curating others would help with that. Is it that, or is it just they can you can't avoid the state of the world and they're experienced?

SPEAKER_01 36:12

You can't avoid the state of the world, they experience all of it, they're smart, they know what's going on. Social media doesn't help because there is no like turn-off button anymore. Um, if one of us was bullied as a kid, you left school and you left the bully behind at school and there was maybe a little bit of an escape. There you have a phone in every kid's pocket nowadays, and that follows you around everywhere and anywhere. There's no hiding anything, there's no there's no privacy anymore, and there's expectations societally that put a lot of pressure on kids. I mean, these kids all think they aren't gonna get into college if they don't take five AP classes senior year, and that's really not true and not accurate. There's a college out there for every kid of every different learning ability. Um, even there are colleges out there for neurodivergent kids that I've counseled families on. There's plenty out there for everyone.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

It's not even just college though, but there's also we are we are lacking uh uh in fishermen. I mean, we just talked to a fisherman. He's like, we don't have young people. It's all every all of us are old. There's no fishermen, there's no uh the the plumbers, all there's not a young guy that has been on my construction site in four months. They're all because it's like our age or old.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

It's been fed into the society that every kid needs to go to college and we're losing out on our tradesmen as a result, and there are definitely careers available, very profitable careers for that matter in the trades, and our school system is also not set up fully to produce those kids. And there's a lot of kids that don't like school that would be great being taught a trade and getting their hands in that at the high school level to really help launch.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

Even in the middle school. I I'm I I was a middle school teacher as well for 10 years, and um, which is the reason why I I the sadist thing came up because you have to be some sort of crazy to uh to want to do middle school. But it's but even in middle school, I hated the fact that I'm like, why? I I was so I I love the fact that I went into teaching science because I could do, I couldn't do English because I don't know if I could have them sit there for so long. But like with boys, you you gotta keep them moving. And I'm like, I don't care if you sit back there and do jumping jacks, like just pay attention, you know. And but I know that a lot of the boys that I worked with who were really good with doing the stuff at the labs, but they're like, I'm not doing my homework. I'm like, you need to be, you you don't need to be in this classroom. You need to be in some sort of like, it should have been a program for, you know, it's something hands-on for English science, whatever that would get you more into the trade, do more of the that that kept your hands busy and not so that way you weren't touching all the girls poking at the back poking at the girls and and kicking out people's seats, you could actually be focused on doing something different.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

And there's a lot of people out there that are not meant to sit behind a desk.

SPEAKER_03 39:08

No, I am not one of those.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

I am not one of those. But society feeds our kids a very different thought process.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

And and also our school system is beholden to a broken college process. Correct. And so, like, you know, if college is college has been dictating the um the criteria for high school, which then trickles down into the criteria for middle school and so far. So, you know, like when I went to kindergarten, I remember my like my crowning achievement of kindergarten was riding a scooter during during recess and going home to my parents and being like, I know how to ride a two-wheeler. And they're like, We've never ridden a two-wheeler. I was like, take the training wheels off. I practiced at recess. And it was like I had I had achieved balance, like I knew what balance felt. And sure enough, I just got on my two-wheeler and rode. And that's what I remember from kindergarten. Yeah, our kindergartners today are doing phonics and like the kindergarten. Yeah, it's early reading, and and it's just it wasn't, it wasn't that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Teaching basic addition and subtraction concepts.

SPEAKER_03 40:16

Yeah. We do lack in this country the ability to buy there. Our math skills are lacking. But I also believe uh one of the things they got rid of when when I started teaching was rote learning. And unfortunately, your brain is a muscle. You you don't just do one barbell, you know, and think you're gonna get bigger biceps. That doesn't work. Your brain also has to work. So, and I remember being in a my when I was student teaching, and then there was a kid that was going, was like 10 minus seven. And he did that, and I was like, oh my gosh. I was like, oh my gosh. And then and they had gotten rid of rote learning, so we're not going through like what's you remember those hundred, the hundred things?

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Oh my god, I love those things. Fourth grade, I had to take them every day. We started every math, and and I'm not suggesting this is an ideal way, but I absolutely remember them.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

Yeah, and even kids don't memorize times tables anything. That was I did.

SPEAKER_03 41:05

But they didn't. It was like the hundred things.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

Well, you had a little bit of a well, it was a hundred multiplication problems, and there was a it was like a one minute or two minutes, and we started every math class with Mrs. Hayes in elementary school.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

I'm a teacher.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

I remember my students' names too. Like I remember I'm a good I'm I remember all the names. You're good with names and there's also there's it's not just um there's too much input. You know, there's too like our so to go back to the anxiety that you brought up, like there's we are none of us are meant to handle the amount of input that is currently coming at us, which is why someone had to invent mindfulness.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

Oh, yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_02 41:46

Like I I'm not poo-pooing mindfulness. I think it's critically necessary, but it wouldn't be necessary if we had space.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

It was natural before we had space.

SPEAKER_02 41:53

If we had space in our in our heads, yes.

SPEAKER_03 41:55

When you could go home and just you're like, Mom, I'm leaving, you drop your stuff on the floor and you ran outside to play. You know, it's just like we don't, there's none of that. Like my kids never went outside. I mean, they went outside to play, but they were outside by themselves. There was nobody in the neighborhood. Or or there or the kids were all, you know, they were stuck inside, they're like, oh, he's playing video games. I'm like, no, you can go outside. Like, go get dirty, you know. But it's like there's none of that. There's no downtime.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

A lot of what you all are talking about, being the the one over here who's never taught, well, I I taught, but not kids. You teach your kids everything. The pendulum, the pendulum, it's like there's this pendulum swing, right? Not everything that happened when we were young was bad, not everything that's happening now is bad, but there's this pendulum swing, like we have to choose one or the other. So how do you both like navigate, or how do you help parents navigate? This is working for Charlie, but not Fletcher. This is working for one child, but not another. At what point do you say, okay, we're not finding what's working and we need Dr. Melissa's help? Like, how do you what's the criteria you mean? I yeah, because I found that as I told you how we ended up in Maryland, Sam. You know, my youngest, I said, I I I I'm not kidding. Like it we were one step away from it being like more more than figurative that he was burning schools to the ground. And I I had a sense in me, having raised three other children who were absolute model citizens, I had a sense this one was different. But I wasn't buying into the kindergarten teacher that handed me a piece of paper that said my son was a candidate to be labeled as oppositional defiance disorder, which is the disorder they give career criminals.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

I we were just we just I just had a conversation just two weeks ago about that diagnosis, which I um never give. Uh and this was a teacher trying to give it a few.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

And the teacher should never allow and should never.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Oh, I had a teacher tell me my son needed behavioral therapy, and I'm like when you have adults that you don't get to handpick when you're in the public system giving you advice as a parent, saying, Red flag, red flag, red flag. And you're like, well, it just is kind of yellow to me. Like, how do you how do you guide these parents in in figuring out like when do we know Johnny really needs Dr. Melissa or needs more?

SPEAKER_02 44:11

Yeah, well, I first of all, I'm not I would never undermine um like the impressions of a teacher. You know, like I just want you know, like they're they're just like in every profession, there are folks who are better able to communicate and less effective. There are folks who are better at their job and less effective. But teachers get such a bum rap because like they are dealing with your kids and you're like, but I know my kid better. But teachers have a set of expertise that um that are more objective than you are. So I just want to, so I'm I'm not gonna go on record as like like just jumping on like you know, teachers coming up with diagnoses or suggestions and poo-pooing that, first of all. Second, second, what if a teacher says, you know, I think that it's it's worse than it is? Sometimes it's an environmental mismatch, right? Like the kid does, there's a there's a book out there called The Orchid and the Dandelion, and the gist is all kids are flowers, some are dandelions and can grow in the cracks in the sidewalk, and some are orchids, and they need a very special special environment, and they are more complex and more beautiful analogy when they bloom, but they need a really special, maintained environment to bloom, and if they don't, they wither. And so sometimes what we have is a dandelion-like environment trying to cultivate an orchid, and that never goes well. And so, how do you know, you know, if your kid's an orchid, or how do you know if there's a mismatch? It it does help to have someone you trust in the consultation role. And the criteria are like funk is your child how is your child functioning, and what's their level of distress? I mean, really, right? Would you say yeah, no, I agree.

SPEAKER_03 45:46

But I would I would never, as a teacher, would be like, your child needs behavioral therapy, or your child is OD as a teacher. Because one, I'm not was never I was like, we need to have a conversation with dot dut. Like, let's so for her to come out and be like, here's your red card. She she should have pulled it in. It should have been a whole lot of people. It's the way you it's the way you approach a situation. Because it's true, we do have insight on kids. That and we see sides of kids that not everybody for sure. And I'm I say that and I'm not that anymore, but you know, it does give you a good indication of how people are. It should be a conversation. Correct. Not a your your kid has OD, you need to get the no, it's it's a way different.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

It's a here's what I'm observing in the classroom. Here it is. How is Johnny doing at home? Are you guys seeing this at home? Is this what can I do to make it better in the classroom? What can we do to help foster this kid's growth from not maybe he's not a dandelion, maybe he's another one.

SPEAKER_03 46:44

I'm gonna and if you do know preemptively your kid, like again, my son he came first and he was very easy to handle. And I knew that there were times with him, if he gets frustrated, I'm like, just give him five minutes. And I would have because he was also the youngest and the tallest in the class. So he was always looked at as being the you know, older than what he was, but he was extremely immature for his age. And they would always, I'm like, look, so I had to start off every school year once I started knowing the trend. I'm like, look, he is the youngest, he is the biggest. He if give if he starts to get frustrated, just let him have five minutes. He will literally come back and sit down and continue working. Like nothing ever happened. He just needs to like decompress. And then once, you know, once I did that, and once, and then they forgot and we went over it, I never had an issue again.

SPEAKER_02 47:31

So it's kind of like Well, yeah, it works to collaborate with families. And and Melissa, your language there where you said, you know, here's what I'm observing in the classroom, I'll just zoom out and say that approach is when you hit you if you want a tool here, if you're a parent of a teenager listening and you have to give feedback to your teenager, um, sometimes we go right into diagnosing our teen, like, you know, you're acting like this because you're because you're hungry, or you're acting like this because you, you know, you're stressed behind the scenes, and you know, whatever. And teens are like, ugh, I don't like how that feels. Instead, say, here are my obser observations, here's what I'm noticing. And those are indisputable things, right? And come to no conclusions. Just say, you know, what do you make of this? Ask questions. Get curious with your kid before you come to conclusions, even if you have a conclusion.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

With with my 17-year-old. Initially, with a teenager initially, yes. With my 17-year-old, I often say to him, like, this is the story I'm telling myself in the absence of your words. Uh-huh. So help me understand if this story is correct. And then I and then I get blasted, right? He's like, Mom, you're so far off, but it gets him talking to me.

SPEAKER_02 48:41

Well, if you What I say is if you if you say, Here's my story, and you're within about 30 degrees of accurate, that's enough. If you're like, here's my story, and and it's absolutely ridiculous, he'd be like, Where'd you come up with that? Are you living on the same planet? Like, do you know my name? Are you really my mother, right? But but if it's within 30 degrees of accurate, if it's a plausible explanation for the behavior you're seeing, then yeah, you give them the opening to correct you and you're off into the races. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

That's that's the only way I've been able to get Jack to the world. Be available to listen on. You have to keep an open ear.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

Yeah. You have to be available to listen to teens.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

And we're not great at that. As parents, we're so, you know, we Because our parents are stressed too.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

Yeah. And teams deliver their messages in rather objectionable ways. That's the other thing, too. Like if you are, yeah. Like, it's hard to listen to someone who's delivering their message in in a way that like makes you feel insulted or triggers a button that's you're like, oh my god, am I raising an a-hole?

SPEAKER_03 49:40

You know, like the only reason why I know I'm not is because she's a peach around everybody.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

Everybody loves her.

SPEAKER_03 49:47

They can take their show on the road.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

Like, you only see the messy behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_03 49:50

Which which again, I have to also remind myself. Like it's actually a really good thing. Yeah, if if I'm like, if she's if if she's having a moment with me, because it does, it because she's 15. So it's like, and she says some things, I'm like, I'm gonna call this hair to cry.

SPEAKER_02 50:04

It doesn't mean you should let yourself get walked over, but you can say, like, I'm gonna give you one do over here, friend. Right. You know, you know, just I'm gonna give you, but but the the it's it's hard to listen to teens because teens have a hard time expressing themselves. They also are sometimes unsure. I've never met a teen who doesn't think they're crazy a little bit. Never. And they the way they talk and the way they are, they often send messages with behavior, and the behavior drives us batshit. So so we assume that we ought to respond with our triggered, you know, batshit level uh emotions, and that's generally a bad idea. And so that's that's some of how this all goes south.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

Do you find, Sam, in your um coaching world, and when you're in your coaching world, do you find as those moms are sort of taking the nuggets away from what you give that they're actually helping each other? Yes. I got a text from a mom and I'm I'm just I'm said I'm sorry, I said moms, but it's moms and dads, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

It's oh yes, I work with both. Yeah. Um, but I got a text from a parent who I've been working with for several months. Kid has been through some major, major ups and downs saying uh, and and was the family was so shut down communication-wise. Nobody wanted to be, but that was the case. And so I've been working with this family, and I got this message that said, we had this lovely impromptu talk in so-and-so's bedroom over the weekend where she shared her observations on um, you know, the state of her friend group and her role in it, more or less. And she was so astute, and we could hear why she was upset about some stuff and what she was pleased with, and this would have never happened before. Like there was just not space for that. And so the parent was getting more information so they could be there for the kid. The kid was offering more information. This is entirely because the parent changed how they were. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:57

So so because I feel like that's how I've been able to, I feel like we're so far. Again, they're still young, 19 and 15. I still have a long way to go.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

Yeah, but I it doesn't ever end.

SPEAKER_03 52:07

It right. My mother will tell you it doesn't end, right? Because I'm still calling. Just changes. But right, but like I feel like I'm very reflective on like if I have a conversation with them that didn't go very well, or or or she comes home and she's coming at me, and I'm like, no, I have had a day. I'm like, I need you to go somewhere else. And then, or I don't follow up with that, and then I remember like three days later, I'm like, I need to follow up with that. Like, I'm gonna follow up with my text message this morning to make sure that we are understanding that we're not gonna talk to each other like that. But um, like it do you find it that parents are not being reflective on situations or their own behaviors in order to be able to fit to not get into those situations?

SPEAKER_02 52:53

Um sometimes I call that not finishing a problem, which is like when you have uh, you know, you you get into a state of conflict, which everybody does when you're in a relationship, right? That's just a normal state. And then ideally the the emotions simmer down and then you repair the conflict, right? And but some families, and then then things are improved and you have a new level of understanding and connection with one another. But what some families do is you get into a state of conflict, then emotions calm down, and nobody does anything about it. And then we set it up. And it's just this like underlying tension until the next thing happens. And so I f frequently I will say to families, I'm like, you are all in the business of not finishing your problems.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

I I absolutely believe that the world would be a different place if we just had lessons in repair, preparations. Where I my family was terrible at it. We actually went through a bunch of counseling to get better at it. Now that I can name it and I know what it is that we weren't doing, I'm like, oh, everybody needs to know about this. This is amazing. Because it's kind of miraculous. How many families like come to you with repair skills?

SPEAKER_02 53:59

Um very few. Very few. I mean, if they're finding me, that I mean, that's often at the bottom of it.

SPEAKER_03 54:05

Yeah. Yeah. So they've gotten the point where it's shut down and then nobody's having the conversation. Well, also to repair is vulnerable.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

And if you if you grew up in a household or you or the state of your family at the moment, or your marriage is triggering in some way to you, you know what I mean? Like and and you didn't learn how to sit with your own vulnerable emotions, then to go say, like, I'm sorry, I screwed up, and that's it, and just take responsibility for your role, first of all, that comes in even power with your child. And if you're used to parenting with power over, that feels weird. And second, you have to be clear about your emotions. You have to be able to say what they are and name them in the moment and not get overwhelmed by them when that's happening. And third, you have to not couple that with, but you screwed up too. Yeah, the but the butt on the buttons, the butt. I've butt I've butted a few times. Yeah, so you have to save the butt for later. Like that's too those are all skills that are totally learnable. But plenty of us do not get taught that as youngsters, and our nervous systems may actually be resistant to them. But once you've realized that it actually makes it calmer, you know, you try it a few times, um, most people are like, What? Like you said, Gretchen, like why didn't I learn this earlier?

SPEAKER_01 55:23

Yeah, everybody needs to know about it. In family therapy and couples therapy, usually what's the root of the problem is communication breakdowns. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:30

It's how you say something. Sometimes it's not what is being said, it's the tone, it's the non-bango. Yep. It's it has most problems can be fixed if people adapt different communication styles. Totally agree.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

I often say parents know the North Star. Like they know, they know what they want for their family or their child, and they think that the route they're taking is the path to get there. And oftentimes it's, you know, it's a boondo, it's it's some sort of rabbit hole down this other direction.

SPEAKER_00 56:00

So if we can help families chart the path to their North Star, then so in terms of charting those paths, you have some frameworks that you use. One's called Loved.

SPEAKER_02 56:11

Yes. I have a free that's free. You can go to my website and download. It's called Well, talk about what it is. Yeah, okay. It's I I call it how to have a you screwed up conversation with your kid, essentially. And each letter of loved is a different, easy to implement step. So L stands for label for good. So for example, if your child is just screwed up, you might you can lead with the way they screwed up, but instead say something like, um, like, Melissa, when you were mean to your sister at dinner today, you know, that that I saw her feelings get really hurt. She looks up to you. And um, I don't see you as someone who intentionally steps on other people's feelings. I see you as someone who tends to take care of other people's feelings. So that was out of character. What was going on there? So I labeled for good there. I labeled her as someone who takes care of other people's feelings, even though that's the exact opposite of what she did at the dinner table, right? So that's labeled for good. Ask open-ended questions, which right there was, so what's going on there? Tell me more about what was happening. What happened right before? Was this influenced by your day? Were you mad at your sister? You know, ask questions. Um V is validate, and that's not the same as endorsing, because your kid may say, Well, so and you know, my Melissa might be like, Well, she was a real jerk to me beforehand, and I she deserved what I gave her, right? And I could, in my head, being like, No, you know. But validate is so you were feeling like your temper was short. I'm gonna, I'm gonna let her know I heard her, right? That's not me agreeing with her, it's letting me know I heard her. And then, and only then, we usually start with E, which is express concern. And then I'm gonna be like, well, I I'm not sure that the way you behaved is going to, you know, it's it's not in keeping with how we do things in the household, it's not in keeping with how I know you want to be in general, and it's gonna deteriorate the relationship with your sister. Where do we go from here? You know, I'm I'm I don't like that that went down and it can't anymore. That's express concern. And then D is demonstrate confidence. I am I'm certain we can do better. I'm certain you can do better, I'm certain you and your sister can do better, I've seen you do better. Let's figure out how that's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 58:19

I love how loved has like this thread of expectation all the way through it.

SPEAKER_02 58:23

We know you're capable of more. But if you say that at the be at the outset, and the people like that is gonna shut a teen down immediately. Yeah. That's the you think that, but you that's step four of five. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

And validating their feelings is extremely important because a lot of teams will report that nobody understands. Nobody gets how I'm feeling, nobody knows. Yes, nobody gets how I'm feeling, they don't feel seen, they don't feel heard. Um so it helps empower them, and that will lead to a better communication.

SPEAKER_02 58:56

So the love framework is something that is it's a free video guide that you can get at the Teen Savvy Coaching website. We're gonna put it in the notes. And it's and and it's not just for you screwed-up conversations, it's for like sensitive, we're stuck conversations. It's it's very and you can apply it today. Like it's so easy to implement.

SPEAKER_03 59:14

All right, very good. I love it. Uh, lightning round. Is that where we're at?

SPEAKER_02 59:17

Yeah, we're at the lightning round. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 59:19

Just eyeballing you, lady. All right, you know you you ladies know what a lightning round is?

SPEAKER_02 59:23

Yes, but we don't know what questions you're gonna ask. No, you're not gonna be asking.

SPEAKER_00 59:25

Oh, that's asking questions. Although there's one I did want to tee up for you ahead of time, but I think you're gonna knock it out of the park anyway. All right, start them off, Cal. Okay, so and you both can answer.

SPEAKER_03 59:36

Okay. You don't have to answer the same time or the same answer. All right. Okay, parenting win or parenting fail. Which makes a better podcast episode? Fail.

SPEAKER_00 59:47

Fail. And and and the AI said you both would say that. Why? Why is that because we've all failed.

SPEAKER_02 59:54

Every parent has failed. Everybody can relate. And when it's like, okay, I'm not winning. I don't want to listen to this podcast about other people winning. I wouldn't be on, I wouldn't be listening to parenting podcasts if I was winning.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:05

This is the question I wanted to tee up for you because I'm I'm I can't yeah, I can think of about a dozen. A song that perfectly describes raising a teenager. What was the song that a guest we had?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:16

Parenthood, it was called.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

It was that that song was hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:20

Yes, it was called Parenthood, and it the the singer is Kat Petzold. She was a guest on our podcast, and we close it out. One of the lines was I've showered three times in my own sweat so far today. Like it was fantastic. But it was it was That was the most hilarious. It was perfect. I don't even remember the case. Parenthood and Parenthood, Catherine Petzold. She's a local couples counselor slash musician. We should be able to find this song. Yes. Yeah, all right. Yep, P-E-T-Z-O-L-D.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:57

All right, great. Okay. All right. One thing you wish someone had told you as a teen. I might cry.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:06

One thing I wish someone had told me as a teen it's okay to be who you are.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:12

Yeah. I agree with you. I think our teens go through a lot and don't get that validation that it's okay to be different and there really is no normal.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:21

It's okay to be you, not just different. It's just okay to be you.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:23

It's okay to be you and there really is no normal.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:26

There isn't. And I mean, even normal back when we were kids was not normal now. Kids are so popular.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

I ask people all the time in my office when they say like something about being normal, and I say to them, please define normal for me because I went through a lot of years of education and I still don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

Love it. Love it. Screen time. Hard limit or educate a conversation?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:51

Depends on the kid. And the age. And the screen. And the nature of the use.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:57

I'm serious. So my household rule is two hours for like video game, like pleasure, like entertainment. I don't include anything that is academic as part of that scheduled screen time. Especially because kids today often homework and stuff is done on a computer. That's not fair. And that, you know, two hours a day is American Academy of Pediatrics recommendations.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:29

Which they removed during COVID because no one could adhere to them. Well, they were all on the computer for school. I know. I know, I know, I know. So they haven't put them back. But so I yeah, I'm gonna give the annoying it depends. And also depends on the age, too. Right. But and I do agree on some limits. I don't think that kids should be just left with unfettered access.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:47

And I don't think any any kids' devices should not have parental controls on them. I think parents should have the ability to have all their sex.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:56

Charlie hates the fact that, um, oh, I'm sorry, you you're tired today.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:00

My 12-year-old told me that he's the only kid in his school that has parental limits on the city. Oh, yes, he is.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:08

I get that too. I get that too. Uh a best spot in Annapolis to decompress.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:13

For me, it's the swimming pool of the YMCI.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:18

So mine's not particularly in Annapolis, but um the ice skating rink because I'm a figure skater.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:25

Oh okay. Untapped skill here. So figures.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:29

Are you doing like triple lexes? There's no triples, there's doubles, but there's two.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

Where can we see you skate? Bowie ice arena. It's do you is there like a ever a performance?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:40

Yeah, I'm on the adult synchronized skating town as well as I skate individual freestyle as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:46

Oh, well, you should get this out of them, they shouldn't you say that they can people can come look you up as a fun family activity. Absolutely. Have you ever skated at once? If you want to come at the uh the ice skating rink in New York? Yeah, I'm from New York.

unknown 1:04:01

Ah!

SPEAKER_03 1:04:01

I love it, it's one of my favorite places. I love it, love it, love it. You're the you're the person who probably is in there in the morning before anybody else gets there, doing all their little twists and turns. Absolutely. And I'm just trying to like get my balance, hoping not to fall.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:14

So, last one, finish this, ladies. Every parent of a teenager needs to hear blank.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:21

It gets better.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:23

Thank you for that. I needed to hear that. You're more than enough. I needed to hear that too. Can you two just stay, please? Can you have to wrap this up down?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:33

Walk around with you and just tell you.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:34

Sorry, I just kept whispering that in my ear.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:36

Okay, so just a real quick wrap-up. Where can the listeners find you and your um parenting shrink wrapped?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:44

Parenting shrink wrapped is on all major podcast platforms, Spotify, uh Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. Go ahead and get your websites, which will also be in the show notes. Okay, mine, I'm Sam, and it's mine is teensavvycoaching.com.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

And my practice Annapolis Psychiatry is Anapolis Psychiatry.com.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:04

And then, ladies, for a parent who heard something today that wants more, what's the first step for them?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:12

Shoot us a line. Um we're happy to email addresses on your websites too. You can contact us through our website. If you have something that you would like us to discuss on parenting shrink wrap, we're always open to listener ideas and commentary. Um there's a contact form on my website, which people fill out every day. So get a hold of one of us, or you can also, if you want to email us jointly, parentingshrinkwrap at gmail.com is our um podcast email, and people can reach us there too.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:42

So, Kelly, I don't know about you, but I felt like they held my hand for most of this, but they also smacked me in the back of the head a couple of times. I thought this was so well balanced in terms of a parent conversation. How did you take it?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:53

Oh, it I mean, what is amazing, right? Yeah, I mean, uh any kind of just you need a refresher. Like again, like Having you on, I'm kind of like, okay, now I need to go home and talk to Charlie. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's like, I know, you know, I get it. So it's like, it's just sometimes you just need to refresh yourself and just get yourself out of your own head and remind yourself that you're not the only person that makes the world run.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:13

Sam and Dactimus, this has been an amazing refresher as a parent, and we hope that there's parents out there that heard you both today and and seek you out. Um, these kids deserve it all, right? They deserve it all. Well, they're the future.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:26

The children are our future.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:29

And every podcast saying thank you for raising the next generation of world changers.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:32

Love it. Yeah. There you go. All right. Well, this is our this is how we wrap it up. That's how we. So uh thank you for tuning in to Voices of Annapolis. Where every voice tells our story. Keep the conversation going, Naptown.